What has AI done for marketing lately?
Chris Vriavas: [00:00:06] Hello and welcome back to this second episode in our series, The Unwired podcast series from VASS. Um, if you didn't see the first or you didn't watch or listen to the first podcast, um, as a recap, my name is Chris Brown. I'm the chief operating officer at intelligence, which is a division, a division of VASS company focused on AI production deployments. Um, if you did miss that first episode, I definitely recommend you go back and have a listen. Um, it was it was really setting the foundation of how how we cut through the hype of AI and really get to to ROI. But today, I am thrilled. Actually, I'm privileged to be joined by my good friend Chris Vriavas, who's the head of product and strategy at contention. Um, as we posed the question, Chris, of what has I done for marketing recently? Um, it's great to have you here. You're one of the masterminds behind contention success. Um, and it's great to have you with us. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for.
Chris Vriavas: [00:01:10] Having me. It's a pleasure.
Chris Brown: [00:01:12] Um, so first things first, Chris, explain to our unwired audience you know, what your role is at contention, what keeps you busy, and then we can go a little bit more into what contention does and, and and how it's using AI to impact the world of marketing. It's going to be a more obviously a more of an industry focused podcast this week.
Chris Vriavas: [00:01:32] Sure. So contention is a marketing services company. We we really specialize in demand gen services and lead gen services for for vendors. Um, but our mission statement is really to, to help educate all professionals and all industries to do their jobs better. So we we're focused on figuring out how do we get the right tools? Mostly technology tools in front of professionals so they can execute their jobs better. They can solve challenges at work. They can find solutions to their challenges at work. And how we do that is we've amassed a large amount of B2B vendor content, and we work to get that in front of the right people. We use a lot of, um, you know, we think about it as fairly basic targeting, but we're targeting various roles and functions within organizations and trying to help professionals do their jobs better.
Chris Brown: [00:02:36] I can tell you, there's nothing in my world basic about marketing. You know, I spend a lot of time around complex AI solutions, and I'm pretty comfortable around that, that arena. But the world of marketing still is. It's a little bit of a dark art to me. So I don't think I don't think even to think about it as basic. Maybe in your world it's basic.
Chris Vriavas: [00:02:56] Chris I'd say the same thing about the AI part of the equation too. But really, what we're doing is putting content in front of professionals. And, you know, if they're looking for solutions to their challenges. And we find vendors that provide said solutions. If we're doing our jobs right, we're we're creating a good connection that way. So we're really focused in on getting content in front of people, figuring out who those people are and trying to marry them to the vendors, such as an intelligence to find to find prospects and companies that are interested in those products and services.
Chris Brown: [00:03:31] And why is the just to set context? Why is the content and not just because it's in your name, obviously, right. But what why is the content so important in in the role that you play. Because you do things slightly differently at contention. So can you talk a little bit about just set that context of why why the content is so important?
Chris Vriavas: [00:03:50] Yeah. Of course. Yeah. So um, all of the interactions that happen, especially digitally and people are educating themselves, are based on, you know, they're engaging with content and they're trying to learn. They're trying to educate. Even a podcast is a type of content, and people are hopefully listening to this to learn a little bit more about how AI can help in marketing. So so the content is really the key center point of of understanding what, what people are looking to do in a buyer's journey. So again, going back to when professionals and companies and those companies are looking for solutions to challenges, they're going to be consuming content. That content can be case studies or very powerful customer success stories, white papers, e-books, podcasts, videos explaining how certain services or products can help. So that interaction, that engagement with content is key to everything, right. So from a demand gen perspective. Demand generation is really about, you know, how do you help educate professionals over time, whether they're in market or not? And the buyer's journey is going to be engaging with content and learning about various products and services, how they can help an organization. So without the content part of the equation, you really don't know what an individual or a company is looking to do. So content is at the core of that. We've seen a lot of companies using technology to better understand the types of companies they talk to and the types of individuals and companies, but we think the most critical juncture is what content is being consumed. So that content is key to everything in marketing.
Chris Brown: [00:05:40] Wow. And we should you know, I should declare you are one of our one of our good clients, right? So we've had many conversations around this subject. It's still a little bit of a dark art to me, I'll be honest with you, Chris. The whole marketing piece. Put the you know, we've had a lot of conversations about this. And when you when you dumb it down a little bit for me, we talk about, you know, even consumer journeys in marketing, when you're thinking about buying a car or buying a TV, I think we talk about the TV, the TV analogy, um, that a lot of, a lot of the decision before you even engage in any conversation, in any sales conversation at all, the individual spent a lot of time outside of your sphere of influence. Absolutely. And this is this is what you're talking about 100%.
Chris Vriavas: [00:06:28] So, you know, the TV is a great analogy. Cars as well. Tvs are you know, you don't necessarily know the brand that you want. Uh, when you start the process, you're looking for certain features the size of television, a type of television, etc.. And so you're going to go research that and look at different review sites. You're going to look at different pieces of content explaining reviews about what that TV can do, what it can't do, etc. so it is all about the kind of the buyer's journey. And in in B2B we are really selling products and services to to businesses. The concept is is the same. You're going to try to educate yourself on what's available, what are the different options, what are the different features and what they can do. And talking about the buyer's journey, what you know, what we're seeing is the digital buyer's journey, particularly right. How people educate nowadays is really over 80% of that is done outside of a vendor's website, outside of their kind of, um, their kind of, you know, in-house marketing, right? Their corporate site, it's people researching online, offline to a lesser extent, but it's really searching around and finding, you know, trying to triangulate what's going on. Because again, they don't necessarily Barely know the brand that offers the solution that they're looking for, right? They don't necessarily know that at the beginning of the buyer's journey. So a lot of that research is happening outside of a vendor, and less and less is it going to be.
Chris Brown: [00:08:03] So not even your content.
Chris Vriavas: [00:08:04] Correct. Correct. Now what we do is we take we can take a vendor's content and amplify it outside of that vendor's website. That's kind of part of what we offer. Right. We can, you know, so if intelligence has I know you guys have a lot of very interesting customer success stories on your site.
Chris Brown: [00:08:22] Thanks, Chris. That's a good plug. Yeah. We have amazing customer success stories. You're absolutely right.
Chris Vriavas: [00:08:26] But, you know, in order to in order to access those, you have to go to your website, right. So how does someone who doesn't know who intelligence is find that content?
Chris Brown: [00:08:36] Intelligence is I don't understand.
Chris Vriavas: [00:08:37] Well, hopefully after this podcast that problem is solved.
Chris Brown: [00:08:41] Sorry, I keep running. Carry on. I get your point. Yeah.
Chris Vriavas: [00:08:44] Um, so it's, you know, where does that content live? How do people find out about it outside of intelligence, right? So a lot of times I believe people don't. Know the the available solutions to the problems, just like in the TV analogy. You may not know all the features of a TV, or exactly what type of TV maybe fits best in your room. Looks like a piece of art, you know. Doesn't take up too much space, doesn't hurt your wallet too much. You don't really know that until you you start researching. So a lot of that digital buyer's journey happens outside of a particular vendor's website. Um, and, you know, the other trend that that's happening across marketing, of course, is the younger generation of buyers that have grown up in the digital world, right? That that's the that's very, uh, you know, very native to them to that's how you find out what you're looking for. That's how you research and find solutions. So the digitization of marketing as well, that's accelerating. So younger buyers are going to go research on their own, right? They don't necessarily give a particular vendor a call and say, Chris, walk me through what intelligence does.
Chris Vriavas: [00:09:54] That's not really how it works. They're going to look and say in your example, what? You know, what, can I help me with this? How can I help me in this particular problem? And who are the vendors that can maybe implement a solution for me? They're going to start their journey that way. They're going to go research about it before they even know who the brand is. So um, and again, the the buyers now, two thirds of B2B buyers at this point are under the age of 40. They're 18 to 40. So that generation is growing up in a digital first world. And I know you have kids, as do I. Their their ability to find something and find solutions online is is that's going to dominate the future. So that digital path and figuring out how to find solutions is really that's kind of what we're set up to try to try to help vendors do, help professionals do. But that's kind of really kind of changed that landscape of how people find solutions.
Chris Brown: [00:10:53] And I haven't lost sight that this is, you know, people are tuning in to to hear an AI podcast, not a marketing podcast, but I just and we'll get there. But I just want to keep setting the context, because I think it's important for when we get to that AI solution. In the last episode, I talked a lot to Frankie, who joined me, held my hand through my first first podcast about starting with always starting with the business challenge, because you can get, you know, you can get those, you know, carried away those starry eyes of AI, AI. But but really, you're still trying to solve a problem, right? You're still trying to address a challenge. You're still trying to go after a growth opportunity, whatever it happens to be. So I just want to keep on, on, on the context setting for a little bit because there's a couple of pieces that you mentioned there. So you're talking about people consuming content off your website, but also more, more and more companies. Are they becoming interested in Consumers that are consuming content in their space, in their sphere, in their marketplace, if you like, but not necessarily their content, because that still tells you something as well, right?
Chris Vriavas: [00:11:58] Yeah, 100%. And again, to go back to the TV analogy, if you're Sony and someone is researching a Panasonic, of course you want to know who that is because they're clearly in the market for that solution. So one of the things that our solution allows is because we are marketing, we're promoting, we're syndicating content from all kinds of vendors in particular product categories. What it allows is for us to generate intelligence, seeing who consumes what type of content in a particular product category so that a vendor A can see who's looking at vendor B and vendor C, or looking at all vendors in a particular product category, and that gives them a better sense of a are they in market to potentially buy a product or service, and b if so, who are they looking at? And that context? You know what we've seen performance wise from from some of our clients is that they actually find that their conversion of leads or intelligence, where we we tell them, go after these people and these companies, they they convert better when people we find them engaging with content that's of their competitors. We we see a lot of scenarios like that. So, you know, whether whether you know, it's it's the Panasonic or the Sony or the, the LG TV, anybody consuming any of that, it's very powerful. That's an indication that they're in a buying journey.
Chris Brown: [00:13:25] They're in the buying journey for for a product that you sell.
Chris Vriavas: [00:13:28] Yeah, exactly.
Chris Brown: [00:13:29] And and my this is just intriguing for me. Right. So give me humor me for one more and then we will get on. We'll get on to the I. So we're not saying the art of sales is dead, right. The art of selling is still is still there. What we're saying is the likelihood that you're going to have a very different conversation and much more educated conversation, less about educating your buyer about your product. Still some, I'm sure, but less about educating your buyer about your product and more and and more defending it, explaining a little bit more, filling in the gaps of their knowledge. It's going to be a different conversation in the sales cycle.
Chris Vriavas: [00:14:06] Yeah, sales is never going to be dead right. I think what what changes a little bit is the education that can happen before a conversation with a salesperson at a vendor, because of the amount of research and content being produced. Um, you know, so that conversation, um, you know, will be different, but also the, the, the salespeople can arm themselves a little better now if they understand a little bit more about what's been consumed. And that's really what our play is. Yeah. What have they consumed before that. That will give you important tidbits to talk to them about. So, you know, if you know that there's their challenge is X right. The first conversation you have with them you want to be talking about X. Now you don't want to preclude and say I know what your challenge is, but if you have that insight beforehand, right. If you know that you know they've got a specific challenge and you can try to address that, that might help you have a better conversation, more productive conversation.
Chris Brown: [00:15:10] Yeah, yeah. Okay. Let me drag us. And when I say drag us, I really mean drag me back to the the subject of AI because it's great context, right? I think you set the context really well. What what contentions ambitions are. I'd love you to talk to us about how you see on a big scale that your big ambition, and then we can get on to some specifics later. But but the big ambition of how you're intending, or what you'd really love to see your end goal as when you're when you're using AI to help you on your journey to help your clients. Yeah.
Chris Vriavas: [00:15:49] So, so AI has been used a lot, I think, in marketing services in general, really on the pure data front. And, you know, kind of I'll dive into that a little bit. And what I mean by that is the the contacts, the professionals in particular companies and the companies themselves. How do you predict what type of company might fit fit your ideal customer profile, your ICP, and which individuals within that company might be decision makers or influencers? Influencers in a decision. And we do that too. That's very powerful. But I think we felt that a lot of the the people in our space are focused much more on the data side of the equation. Um, we were much more interested in what that who those individuals and companies are and what they're engaging with on the content front. So instead of and we've done some work on on predictive modeling for contacts and companies, but instead of focusing on that, we really saw a need to rationalize and understand the content that's being consumed and getting an understanding of what that content is for, to try to tie back to figuring out the solution, the challenge they're trying to solve. Right.
Chris Brown: [00:17:03] So you believe the content can can tell you more about the the purchase intent than maybe the the structured profile data and the company data. Or maybe it's an augment, right. It's an and I'd say maybe.
Chris Vriavas: [00:17:16] As much as important.
Chris Brown: [00:17:17] As important as. Yeah.
Chris Vriavas: [00:17:19] And content because you know again there are the content production in the world has just skyrocketed over the last decade. And it will continue to do that. More podcasts, more pieces of content. In a recent Content Marketing Institute CMI report in 2024, 45% of marketers are going to spend more money on content, 42% will spend as much as they did in 2023, right? So at very at a very minimum, despite any macroeconomic headwinds, they're spending at least as much, if not more on content. So the amount of content continues to explode. And then within content, how do you glean from a case study, a 3 or 10 page case study, what it's solving, how do you kind of process that? So it's easy to say, you know, Chris Brown from intelligence consumed this white paper, but what is that white paper. What is that case study about. What is that podcast about. Right. And so we feel that understanding that and pulling insights out of the content is key to understanding what they're what they're trying to solve in that buyer journey. So how do you process all this text or audio in the case of a podcast and really pull out insights to say, aha, this is what Chris has researched. This is what Chris's colleagues have researched. Maybe at intelligence for a solution they're looking for. And therefore we think these are the challenges they're trying to solve. And if you think about, you know, again, the complexities of all the text and all the, the, the volume of content, you know, understanding what, what that content is trying to achieve and understanding that at scale is important. We're you know, we're adding thousands of pieces.
Chris Brown: [00:19:09] It must be hundreds of thousands of pieces.
Chris Vriavas: [00:19:11] We've got hundreds of thousands of pieces. There are hundreds of thousands of pieces produced every year. We get new client content from our clients every month, new content that we go out and find from vendors every month. That's thousands every month. So it's not just the sheer volume of the content, it's then the type of content in all of the the what is the content about? It's not it's not a zero or a one. There's complexities in content. So processing that, understanding really what that content is about and what it can tell us to use really, you know, for us for the marketers and the salesperson, as we talked about earlier, that's key. Can we figure out how to arm that salesperson, arm the marketing department at a vendor and say, look, this is what they're this is what they researched. That's great. Here's the case study they consumed. Here's some white papers they consume. But here's exactly what those pieces of content are intended to do. This. This is the the solution that they're looking at. This is the challenge they're trying to solve. And doing that at scale was um, you know, that is a challenge. It's a data challenge. It's a different kind of data challenge. And that's really what we set out to do with AI.
Chris Brown: [00:20:26] Wow. So I know because I'm involved in in some of the projects that you guys are doing with AI, that you've got a number of different aspects that you're that that you're going after, right? That you're, that you're attacking, you know, this, this elephant sized ambition. There's one biting it off one chunk at a time. Um, and you've made some good, good inroads. You've made good headway into, into this journey pretty pretty quickly. Um, and I'd really like to, if you're willing to share in, in public. Right. I really like you to talk a little bit about some, some of the specifics of those solutions that that you're implementing in order to, to solve this big ambition of understanding that content journey that that a buyer is or a buyer journey that, that, that someone's taken through through the consumption of content.
Chris Vriavas: [00:21:19] Yeah, absolutely. Happy to share. And this is part of what our offering is.
Chris Brown: [00:21:23] I'm glad you said that because that's the whole point of being here, Chris. Yeah.
Chris Vriavas: [00:21:25] But so so, um, you know, we had done some preliminary modeling to set the stage around content to pull out basic aspects of the content. Who's the vendor? Um, you know, maybe some metadata on the piece of content when it was produced. Um, but one of the first projects we engaged with intelligence is to pull out key phrases. Right. So what are the the key phrases within a piece of content that we can pull out and try to get a better sense of the topic, right? What is that? What is that solution? And the challenge? The challenge and the solution pairing. Um, so we've kind of been able to initially pull that out and then say to a potential client of ours, hey, this vendor is consuming this content. Great. Okay. What is that content about? Here are some key phrases and the topics that they're that this content is about. Um, we then.
Chris Brown: [00:22:18] This content can be thousands of words long right. It can be multiple pages.
Chris Vriavas: [00:22:23] Yeah.
Chris Brown: [00:22:23] It can be audio transcribed. It can be could be audio. I by the way, yeah.
Chris Vriavas: [00:22:27] We're focused much more on, at the moment. Text based content, but could be audio, could be video based as well. Transcribing that to text as well. Um, so so so again what what the key phrase can do is start to pull out that meaning and give someone great. Chris, consume these five case studies. Okay, I get it. So now do I have to read all five case studies to figure out what Chris is interested in? How do I get some key phrases out of that to try to understand where Chris is going? What what what he's what he's trying to solve. Um, and then we can kind of cluster some of those key phrases together to get a general sense of what people are looking at in general, in a product category, what people are looking at across a company, what people are looking at across an industry. So putting that together. So that was really our initial breakthrough. And that was something that, you know, we hadn't seen anybody else offer in our space. Right. They haven't really gone down that path. We've also done some work on NBA as you know next best asset. So you know, this is a traditional digital marketing concept where based on you know what what people have consumed, they may also want this. So if you go to Amazon people who like bought this also bought this.
Chris Vriavas: [00:23:51] But but doing that in a way that helps the buyer journey, that was really critical. So find you've got these key phrases. Now you've got some vendor information, some metadata on the content. How do you find how do we push them down a journey? You know, our goal is to really, again, help all professionals do their jobs better. So how do how do we do that? Let's let's give you more content that is aiming to help you solve your challenge. You know, specifically. So that's been a big breakthrough. And that helps not just in a user journey. Coming to our our flagship website content Com where we have, you know, hundreds of thousands of pieces of content. So it's not just the buyer journey. It also helps us on the targeting end. It's how we do some of our email outreach, how we know what potentially to send to Chris or other employees and intelligence, because we can kind of see, you know, this is kind of this is a this is a way to think about what what content to use. So the MBA has been key. But but what we're really excited about is something that that we've accomplished with intelligence over the last kind of several months.
Chris Vriavas: [00:25:03] It's what we call business need. Right. So and for me, this is kind of the, the, the head of the spear, if you will, for what we're trying to do with engaging professionals and understanding this, this juncture of of the people, companies and the content. Those are the three pillars of our pyramid. Who are the professionals, who are the companies, who are the content and the business need is taking a lot of this other work we've done and saying, okay, this account, this is based on the key phrases that that we all the information we've gleaned from the content they consume. This is our best guess on what their business need is, right? This is our best guess of what this account is trying to solve. Um, and you know, nothing in marketing is perfect, but it gives you, as we said earlier, we can maybe arm that salesperson, maybe arm that marketing team with. This is what we think this account is interested in. So hey, marketing team, maybe you need to nurture with content when when you get them as a lead. Maybe you nurture them with topics around this business need or or Mr. or Mrs. Salesperson. If you're going to do some outreach and give these people a call, this is what we think their challenge is. And so we've kind of crystallized that down to a business need, and that's really exciting.
Chris Vriavas: [00:26:26] So we're able to offer a lot of this intelligence through our platform, but we can also append this intelligence to leads. We also generate leads for clients. And leads have typically been you know, here's the demographic information. Here's the firmographic information. They consume this. Well now we're able to say, and this account, here's their business need. And that's what we're really excited about. So you know that's that's been the, you know, kind of three pillars of what we've worked on so far with content. There's much, much more to explore. And one of the things that we're thinking about is getting a better sense of the engagement rates, like, what are the types of content that just just seem to spark people's interest, whether they're at the beginning of a buyer's journey, they're just doing some research. So understanding kind of the content engagement and which types of content perform better is another avenue we want to explore again in tandem with all the details about the content. So why, why, why does this piece of content seem to have a better engagement rate, either in an email or on a website, than that piece of content? That's that's one of the areas we're looking to explore. Yeah.
Chris Brown: [00:27:39] And we've started a little bit on interest score as well Chris. It's fascinating stuff. Right. It's absolutely I could sit and listen to this. I'm just intrigued by the whole piece. As I say, maybe it's because I see it as a little bit of a dark art and and, you know, bringing some light to that is really interesting to me. I think if I flip the tables, if I look at the projects that we've done from, from the from the other side of the table, it's been super interesting. From our perspective, this has been a great journey for us, right? We know that. We talk about it a lot because we've we've been embarking on very interesting technical considerations. So your project was one of the first in the last episode, I was here with Frankie a couple of weeks back and we were talking about consumption of AI. We started the the business need piece that we did with you on a open source academic model that we were tuning. It was an ML model that we were tuning in order to to get that business need. And in the middle of that project, GPT opens its doors and we suddenly look and go, wow, the speed at which we can accelerate that. That wasn't the consumption option that was available to us when we when we started the project. And we flipped really quickly and pretty easily, actually, to start to test two models together. Taking into consideration, I know you guys consider it greatly as to I have hundreds of thousands of these these documents. What is the cost going to look like. Right. For me to to own the model versus what's the cost going to look like for me to hit GPT with, with, with hitting the business need? But the the results from, from using model as a service because the power of GPT was, was just so vast that that we flipped our journey and went then.
Chris Brown: [00:29:23] And so that's an interesting aspect of this, this project. Another one is we still don't get to work on many unsupervised learning projects. And and we've been embarking on, on unsupervised learning in that, you know, in that correlation of the business journey of if we start, you know, there's no labeled data for that, right? It doesn't it doesn't exist. So, so, so, so our guys are getting to to really, you know, flex their muscles in their unsupervised learning aspect of how can I do correlation where I'm not presenting any rules to to an engine to understand what can we can we discover business need and make that go? So as fascinating as it is from from the business side and valuable, it's incredibly interesting. It's been incredibly interesting for us in, in understanding how we do flip from a, from a project where model as a service becomes available. How do we do that contrast and compare? How do we across all of the things that that I talked about in the last episode. How do we get to flex our muscles a little bit in the unsupervised and unsupervised learning world where we've done some projects, don't get me wrong, but they're still few and far between. So it's been it's been a it's been a hell of a good match, I'll be honest with you. And that's a bit of serendipity in that. Right? I take that and but you need a bit of good luck along the way with some of these things. But yeah, it's been super interesting.
Chris Vriavas: [00:30:44] It's definitely interesting. And I think one of the, um, you know, you talk about dark arts of marketing and some of some of what you stop saying that.
Chris Brown: [00:30:52] That's just my some.
Chris Vriavas: [00:30:53] Of what you just went over is some dark art to me. You know, um, obviously I understand these concepts in general, but the technology and the aspects, you know, I don't have that sophistication of of it. But, you know, I think in general with, with a lot of this technology, um, you know, there's, there's part of people that are worried, what does this mean? What does it do? You know, it's just it's a worry. It's a concern. There's a flip side to that, that I like to focus on. Which which you just encapsulated which. This is exciting.
Chris Brown: [00:31:25] It is exciting.
Chris Vriavas: [00:31:26] This is where things can go and this is how we can improve processes. This is how we can improve marketing. And with what we're doing as an example, we're not trying to convince you to buy something that you don't need. We're actually trying to convince you. We're trying to help you buy something that will help you do your business better. Right. And so all of these elements come together for yes, it's marketing. Yes. We're not curing cancer with this, but it's to try to improve a process, try to improve a buyer's journey for real needs. And so exploring all of these things, as basic as some of these concepts may seem, they're it's a lot of greenfield. It's not it's not really been pursued yet. And so I look at it as there's a lot of interesting potential, and I think we're just scratching the surface on where this goes.
Chris Brown: [00:32:14] And I think I think what's really interesting, Chris, is even for our technology folks, and we're a we're a deeply technology based business, right? We we live in the depths of technology. You you can't you can't replicate that excitement without there being a known business value. These guys still want to work on something that is going to generate the business value that you've just described. So that's where that's where these journeys and projects really come together. And that importance of it just flows all the way through a project when when everybody in the project knows whether you're a data scientist or whether you're running the product of the company, that the business value, the goal is there. That's what generates the that enthusiasm, that excitement that I think we're seeing throughout this project.
Chris Vriavas: [00:33:03] Yeah, 100%. I think one of the things that that we try to do a little bit with, with your team as well, is try to connect the dots and explain what our clients see, because when we show them these key phrases, when we show them the business need, there are light bulbs that go off, right? It's really fascinating. And again, for us, some of it at this point, because we've thought about it so much, it seems quite commonplace, it seems quite basic, but those connections are important. And I think, you know, it's important. It's important that this technology is doing you know, I like to break this all down to the basics of what is the what's the point of this technology. It's great for me to be able to say, sure, I work in AI a little bit, but to what end? You know, it's all to what end. And some of this end is really fascinating. So we're always trying to explain to the team as well. This is what we're hearing in the marketplace and it really resonates. People are fascinated by this because some of this, this work we've engaged with hasn't really been done before. I'm not saying this is the most groundbreaking AI that exists, but it doesn't really exist in our space, and it turns a lot of heads.
Chris Brown: [00:34:15] That's brilliant and it is fascinating. I've been fascinated. And Chris, it's amazing how time flies. We are out of time. Believe it or not, it's gone. It's gone super quick. Um, thank you so much for being with us today. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your busy schedule to come and to come and talk to us. Um, it's been fantastic. So thank you. Thank you really sincerely for for sharing your time with us.
Chris Vriavas: [00:34:38] Thanks for.
Chris Brown: [00:34:38] Having me. And the insights. Right. It is. It's a fascinating subject. And as you say, the it's the combination of the I in the space that is that is potentially groundbreaking. And it takes both of those things. So thank you. Thank you again. Thank you. Um and that's great stuff. So that's it for today. I will remind us we'll be back in a couple of weeks in this room or another room that looks similar to this, um, to immerse ourselves in the next episode of the Unwired podcast series. But until then, once again, Chris, thanks for joining us. Thanks.
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